lion fish

[SqueakyClean]

Can a lion fish be housed in a reef?

[stevem]

Lion fish are reef safe as long as other fish are not too small as they will eat them. They also eat invert such as shrimp, snais, and crabs.

[Sasha]

in essence they are not, while they won't go after your corals they'll eat everything else that moves and would fit in their large mouth.

[stevem]

And what a big mouth they have

[rdebonis]

And what a big mouth they have

And Poisonous spines Too! Double your pleasure, a big mouth and Poisonous spines. A double whammy, to small fish and to fish keepers. :D

[stevem]

venomous not poisonous

[rdebonis]

venomous not poisonous

Technically you are correct however as you can see below Poisonous is also acceptable. :chuckle:


Main Entry: poi·son·ous
Pronunciation: \ˈpȯiz-nəs, ˈpȯi-zən-əs\
Function: adjective
Date: 1565
1 : destructive (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/destructive), harmful (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harmful)
2 : having the properties or effects of poison (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poison) : venomous (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/venomous)
3 : spiteful (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spiteful), malicious (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/malicious)
— poi·son·ous·ly adverb


Main Entry: ven·om·ous
Pronunciation: \ˈve-nə-məs\
Function: adjective
Date: 14th century
1 : full of venom: as a : poisonous (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/poisonous), envenomed (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/envenomed) b : noxious (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noxious), pernicious (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pernicious) <expose a venomous dope ring — Don Porter> c : spiteful (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spiteful), malevolent (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/malevolent) <venomous criticism>
2 : having a venom-producing gland and able to inflict a poisoned wound <venomous snakes>

[stevem]

poisonous is what an animal produce, while venomous is in the animals body or skin.

[rdebonis]

poisonous is what an animal produce, while venomous is in the animals body or skin.

Based on your definition, that "poisonous is what an animal produces" as a biological organism (animal), the Lion Fish produces the poison that is in it's spines, the venom in it's spines is part of the Lions biological system, therefore it is produced by the Lion fish and is therefore a poison. Which logically follows that the Lion Fish is poisonous. Without the Lion Fish producing the poison, there would be no venom (or poison) in the spines.

Some puffer fish contain a poisonous gland which if eaten will kill you. These fish are generally referred to as poisonous not venomous. The Black Widow or Brown Recluse spiders are referred to correctly as either venomous or poisonous. Snakes are referred to as either Venomous or non-Venomous or Poisonous or non-Poisonous, each is valid. The Blue-Ring Octopus is correctly referred to as one of the most poisonous creatures in the sea, while it's venom, is considered one of the most toxic. It secretes this venom or poison (a neurotoxin) through it's bite. So the octopus is poisonous and what it secretes is venomous.

However if you insist that Lion Fish are Venomous and not Poisonous be my guest. Linguistics is not one of my strong points, so your answer is as good or better than mine. In any event, it's not a good idea to pick up a Lion Fish with your hands. :shock2:

Hopefully end of this discussion.

[stevem]

Either way a know a few who have been stung by a lion fish, and I have heard it is very painfull. I have been lucky so far and very carefull aroud them, i have not been stuck.
One friend was pricked by a dead one and he was in extreme pain.

[rdebonis]

Either way a know a few who have been stung by a lion fish, and I have heard it is very painfull. I have been lucky so far and very carefull aroud them, i have not been stuck.
One friend was pricked by a dead one and he was in extreme pain.

If you want to keep this friend, tell him to stay away from Australian Stone Fish and Blue Rings.
He should not really want to collect the Australian Stone Fish because it's really ugly, unless he likes weird bizarre looking fish; but the Blue Ring is both small and a beautiful looking Octopus. Small, cute and deadly!

A really Ugly and Deadly Stonefish

The venom of a stonefish can kill a human in two hours.

http://www.australianfauna.com/afimg/stonefish.jpg




A really Beautiful and Deadly Blue Ring Octopus

This is Hapalochlaena lunulata the larger of the 2 species of Blue Ring, about 8 inches long.
It carries enough poison to kill 26 adults within minutes.

Death in a Beautiful Package!

http://www.barwonbluff.com.au/bluff%20life/below%20waves/animals/inverts/molluscs/cephalods/images/blue%20ring%20octopus.jpg



Happy Salt Water Collecting :shock2:

[stevem]

First the stone fish is so ugly it cute, and a great conversation piece.
Second the blue ring octopus is extremly hard to keep, and about $ 200.00 not cheap.

[rdebonis]

First the stone fish is so ugly it cute, and a great conversation piece.
Second the blue ring octopus is extremly hard to keep, and about $ 200.00 not cheap.

Regarding the Stone Fish being cute, all I can say is you need help because only his parents can look at that puss and say he's cute!

Regarding the Blue Ring, if you're nuts enough to own one of these lethal babies in your house, I'll pay for it; if only to say that I know someone crazier than me. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

and if by some weird chance you ever entertain the insane thought of owning a Blue Ring read this:

http://www.thecephalopodpage.org/bluering5.php

Knowing how octopus like to leave their tanks and wander around, you're liable to wake up up one morning with the Blue Ring snuggled next to you in bed nice and cozy. Remember speak softly to her and whatever you do don't upset her!

[rdebonis]

Steve,

While we're on the subject of collector friendly sea creatures, I've got another lovely for you to pick up, caress gently and speak sweet nothings to, the Clown Mantis Shrimp, this little beauty is almost guaranteed to take a chunk out of your hand! No poison, but real nasty!



http://www.liveaquaria.com/images/categories/product/p-89388-shrimp.jpg


:crab: :crab: :crab:

[stevem]

I have heard stories of them cracking tanks.
They are really great looking inverts, but they have to stay alone they eat everything.
They are also very hard to catch. They are known as thumb splitters, I wonder why.

[Lewis555]

The lionfish is native to the Indo-Pacific oceanic region. This range extends from western Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) and Malaysia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia) east to French Polynesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Polynesia) and the Pitcairn Islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands). In addition, the range also extends north to southern Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) and southern Korea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea) and south to parts of coastal Australia.[/URL]The lionfish has also recently been discovered on the shores of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica"]Jamaica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionfish#cite_note-1) (W.I. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indies)) and Panamahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lionfish_in_palau.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama)

[xoomer]

It wil be fine with a lot of different species of fish. Do you have any specific choices you;d like to place with it?

[stevem]

lionfish are not overly aggresive, with other fish. they will however swallow any fish small enough.
Do not underestimate their mouth size. I have raised several lionfish over the years, and never had any problems. they are very hardy fish, as long as they are eating. Try to get them to eat frozen food or pellets, much better for them then live.

[rdebonis]

The lionfish is native to the Indo-Pacific oceanic region. This range extends from western Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) and Malaysia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia) east to French Polynesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Polynesia) and the Pitcairn Islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands). In addition, the range also extends north to southern Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) and southern Korea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea) and south to parts of coastal Australia.The lionfish has also recently been discovered on the shores of Jamaica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica) (W.I. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indies)) and Panamahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lionfish_in_palau.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama)

Lion Fish have been seen recently by divers off the East Coast of the U.S. from Florida to South Carolina. This may be due to the recent warming of the Atlantic Ocean Currents and their migration from the Caribbean. In any event it doesn't bode well for small native Atlantic species. During the warm months, Lion Fish may some day reach the Hudson Canyon outside of NYC, if they haven't already. :mad:

[xoomer]

Lionfish are found in Long Island waters. They are collected by Atlantis Marine world staff every year.

Note: AMW is now Long Island Aquarium.

[rdebonis]

Lionfish are found in Long Island waters. They are collected by Atlantis Marine world staff every year.

Note: AMW is now Long Island Aquarium.

I'm behind the times, I found this article from 2006 where Todd Gardner discovered Lion Fish while diving off of Long Island

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/6/aafeature

I guess they are the advanced guard of new Marine species coming into this area. probably not good news for many local marine species.