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Old October 9th, 2012, 01:50 PM   #1
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Default Tank Problems

Hello,

I have a 90 gallon tank. I recently last two months slowley converted the tank to saltwater.

My tank in now full salt, salinity 1.018-1.019

I am having a problem with amonia ad Nitrite. Both seem to be really high.
I use prime to lock the amonia and keep fish from getting sick.

Last night I tested nitrite and the leverls were pruple (5) on the card.
I did a 25% water change and then thested again this morning. Exactly same reading.
I did another 25% water change this morning.

When adding my new saltwater the tank totally clouded up and looks milky white. Levels still high, have not changed.

my filters are eihem wet dry cansiter and eihem professional canister. No sump at this time.

Help how do I lower my levels? How do I keep my water from getting milky white durng watr changes. That never happened in freshwater.

Can I prepare my new saltwater and store in a 100 gallon barrell till im ready to use? How long can I store it for?

I ned help, I have no idea how to fix this.

Ross
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Old October 9th, 2012, 03:00 PM   #2
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Your canister filters are nitrate factories.

Open them up and remove any accumulated detritus. Rinse everything in the fitler with water drained in the tank. You'll aways have problems with canister filters, especially if you have high bio-load or feed a lot.

If while adding newly mixed salt your tank gets milky white it would indicate bionic imbalance. That can kill a lot of things spking your ammonia in the process which then kills more beneficial stuff.

Which saltmix are you using and what are you using to test salinity of the water?
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Old October 9th, 2012, 09:30 PM   #3
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yes leaving filters dirty can raise nitrates, that does not mean you can not use them. I have used them many time with no problems.
second i do not like to leave salt mix unless if it's being aerated. A powerhead works fine.
clean out your filter, and continue with your water changes.
also you do not say what live stock you have
and easy on the feeding
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Old October 10th, 2012, 12:19 PM   #4
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Default Live Stock

Small Empror Angel
Yellow Tang
Powder Blue Tang
Hipo Tang
Coral Beauty
Spoted Foxface
Porcupine Puffer
Panther Grouper
Algie Blemey
Blue Face Angel
3 Monos
2 Scats


Now here is the kicker

2- Parrot Fish
Spotted Puffer
Figure 8 Puffer
Snowflake Eel
Baby Snowflake Eel

This tank was slowley converted to salt from a cichlid tank.
Removed all the cichlids and this is what seemed to stay healthy


Now my tank is totally Clear this morning. Btt my Nitrites and amonia are still all the way up. After 2 water changes and I added 12 lbs of live rock to tank yesterday.

Added some seachem stabilizer as recommended to me by lfs.

Can I turn off OV steralizer now that water is clear or do I leave on 24/7 How do you run one properly?

Could the uv steralizer have killed the bacteria and made the levels spike.. they were fine thursday and I added uv friday, monday levels were high
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Old October 10th, 2012, 05:32 PM   #5
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Default 90 gal

way too many fish for a 90 gal
You put all theses fish at the same time in a new tank?
even in an established saltwater tank this is like twice what should be in there
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Old October 10th, 2012, 07:54 PM   #6
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I thought the tank was fully cycled. It was running as a cichlid tank for many years.

I was sold a snowflake eel and was told kit will live with them fine. Needless to say this was not the case.

My son really liked the Eel so I decided to make the tank real brackish wit marine salt not cichlid salt to better

suite the Eel.

One thing led to another and I realized my salinity was up at 1.016 which is where all my lfs keep teir saltwater fish. So I purchased a few damsils and Left them and the cichlids in the tank for two weeks. Then I started moving the cichlids to my office cichlid tank and started stocking this with fish. All small by the way

That is how I got to where I am now. So how do I fix ammonia and Nitrite problem. Water changed twice with no luck. Added some prime and seachem stabilizer since you said I was cycling I felt it may help things along. I also purchased like 15 lbs of live rock and added to the tank the past 2 days.

My goal is Healthy happy fish and a healthy tank. Any suggestions what to do next?
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Old October 10th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #7
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You have way too many fish first, probably double what you should have.
By putting this many fish in the tank you are causing it to go through a cycle.
most of the fish you have get very large
Emperor angels should not even be sold, they are very hard to keep alive, and need a large established
tank.

also a freshwater tank does not support the same bacteria as a saltwater tank.
It is not just about the salinity, fresh and salt have differences.
First you have to get rid off some fish, I would say atleast half of them.
The parrot fish get huge, most puffer get very large also.
Ells actually do not need alot of room, and snowflake are a great choice.
Most tang need alot of swimming area.
The yellow is the most practical for your tank

saltwater cycle are much more sensitive and dramatic then freshwater.
When putting fish in it is best to d oone at a time.
Monos are a good fish to keep, but also get about 8"
panter grouper get very large about 20" and also loose most color as they get big.
Your local pet shop should inform you about these thing, some just worry about selling fish regardless of the tank.

uv stay on 24 /7

live rock will help, but live rock to stay live need higher salinity
about 1.024- 1.026
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Old October 10th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #8
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I have to agree with steve above.

You'll need to sell most of your fish (I think more than half of what you have). Sell the biggest and hungriest first.

Converting a tank from freshwater to saltwater is probably worse than starting from scratch and seeding it with established LR and LS. The beneficial bacteria you had in your fresh/brackish water will die causing a spike. In addition that many a fish would put tremendous load on the system that is already established, this is much worse when you are just starting and cycling.

Continue doing 20% but frequent water changes, add some carbon to your filter or in a filter sock next to your return.

You must get rid of all large fish, sell them soon or you'll loose them one by one. Do a head count everyday to make sure there is nothing missing decaying behind the rockwork. Feed once a day in the evening and much less than you did until now. It's ok to skip a day too.

Stay away from the tank thoughout the day except to do water changes. Your fish are already stressed and keeping your hands in or around the tank isnt helping them at all. It's only matter of time that one will break out with something and they'll stop dropping like flies only adding to the problem.

Also shorthen your photo-period or even almost eliminate it if you dont have any corals. With your tank cycling you'll only grow nuisance alge from now on; why add to the problem.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 09:03 PM   #9
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Here is what I'd let go immediatelly.

Small Empror Angel - you can later on as it grows
Powder Blue Tang - most tangs need 6 foot long tanks
Hipo Tang - same as above
Porcupine Puffer - fish with ugly eating habits, lots of left-over food
Panther Grouper - these should only be sold large in form of fillets
Blue Face Angel - maybe.maybe not depending on how large it is
3 Monos - noting against monos but there are more exciting saltwater fish, if you kept them for years keep them for now
2- Parrot Fish - you know they dont belong there
Spotted Puffer - if large let go
Figure 8 Puffer - they dont get that large so meaybe leave him if not aggressive

I dont' mean to sound mean, just trying to save your tank so that you dont quit this great hobby after being dissapointed. I know how you feel and how easy it is to get carried away with just one more fish. Unforturnatelly, we are all guilty to a degree of doing just done.

Hope this helps, keep us posted as to progress and dont be afraid to ask questions.
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Old October 13th, 2012, 09:08 AM   #10
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My ammonia has come down to 0 but the nitrite and nitrate are still high.

it seems the common consensus is my tank is cycling again.

what should I do with the high levels, some say water change others say it will hurt the cycling.

If I let it be will it hurt the fish?

As far as the last post about eliminating fish, I understand but right now were in a 90 gallon tank and

all the fish are very small as if I purchased any other way they would of been unaffordable.

As they grow I plan to go to a larger tank, but for now I need to stabilize my tank, was planing on doing a aqueon proflex 4 sump refrugium which should add about 30 more gallons of water lots of filtration. But until I stabilize this tank I am afraid to make any changes..

What should I do with the nitrite/nitrae levels... I keep adding prim every 2 days and have been adding seachem stabilizer for last 3 day, bottle says do for 7, hoping this will speed up the cycle. I also added 15lbs of live rock hoping it will help

I do not get offended by anyones opinions, I am grateful for the advise.

I just need to get this under control right now, before any fish are harmed or worse.

thanks

Ross
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Old October 13th, 2012, 01:50 PM   #11
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Default 90 gal

as you should not get offended. We are just trying to pass long advise from past experience.
first off you can delay a cycle tthis way but are not going to hurt it. the only thing that is going to hurt it is leaving all those fish in and have your tank crash.
You need to remove atleast half of those fish and like now.
with all those fish your tank can not produce enough bacteria to support them a crash is almost certain.
Keep doing small water changes, like 10% every 3-4 days, untill the ammonia and nitrites come down.
I would get rid of the parrots and emperor angel first. parrots get to big and are way too destructive.
The emperor is a very hard fish to keep and will not recover from bad water quailty. Even experts have a hard time keeping this fish inthe most pristine water conditions.
The panter grouper get too large and is pretty gray and bland as it get big. It looses that nice color. # puffers is also not going to work in a 90 gal the porcupine get very large 15-18 inches, and is a very nice fish. i have raised them before in a 90, but I only had 4 other fish with him.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 09:25 AM   #12
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hello,

amonia at 0 nitrite and nitrate still very high,

I get conflicting info about what to do.

some say water change others say not till cycle is done. I have been adding prime every other day to make things less toxic. now i'm told add cycle to speed up the process. I have also been addind seachem stability over the last few days.

I see a product called amiguil, it eliminates nitrate and nitrite, should I use this is it ok? will it stop or interfere with the cycle.

what should I do, I have eliminated some of the fish.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 10:14 AM   #13
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You need to do small water changes even if it prolongs your cycle. You don't want fish to swim in their own pi**

Adding nitryfying bacteria helps but some products are best left alone as they dont add much.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 01:37 PM   #14
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which brand would you recommed to cycle with or to help me out?

I saw instant ocean has one, ATM has one?
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Old October 16th, 2012, 05:40 PM   #15
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with that many fish if you do not do wc the fish will die
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Old October 17th, 2012, 09:36 AM   #16
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ok as suggested I did a small water change maybe 15-20 gallons last night

this morning my nitrates are down a little more but nitrite still very high, second purple from the bottom on the test card.

what should I do now, after water change I added instant ocean biospiro and prime.

I am going away tomorrow for 3 days and i was thinking of just not having the tank fed for those days and maybe it would help the levels come down.

what should I do next, I turned off the uv like it said on the bottle of biospiro.

should i not feed for the few days, should I feed? what should I do about the nitrite?

would anyone suggest the amiguil plus to remove the nitrate and nitrite? will is ruin the cycle,should I just leave everything alone.

one of my monos appears to be getting a little bit of icy, i dosed the tank with coppersafe to eliminate it.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 02:55 PM   #17
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I use instant ocean and reef crystals.

You should not feed for 3 days. Also do not overfeed them before leaving.
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Old October 18th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #18
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ok did 2 water changes 2 days in a row,

my nitrite has gone up a little more my nitrite is purple on the tests.

why did they not come down after 2 water changes. I have added biospiro in hopes it would help. nothing.

can i be getting false readings from the use of the prime every other day? I ALSO TRITE NITEOUT TO REDUCE NITRATE WITH NO LUCK.

I am so confused.... I am away now fish wont eat or get a water change for 3 days.


HELP THIS IS MAKING ME NUTS.
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Old October 18th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #19
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I keep telling u, get rid of atleast 1/2 the fish
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Old October 22nd, 2012, 10:30 PM   #20
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finally tonight, nitrite gone, nitrate reads 5.0 light orange. i hope this is the end of the cycle.

now how long do i wait till i start regular water changes?


Yes i did remove some fish. thank you guys for being so nice these last few weeks while i was freaking out.
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Old October 24th, 2012, 05:17 PM   #21
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Default wc

yes start doing water changes
you want to bring down the nitrates a little more
as theses fish get bigger you will have to move more of them or get a bigger tank.
keep on top of your wc and keep testing
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Old October 24th, 2012, 05:40 PM   #22
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Will be putting in the aqueon proflex 4 sump help with the load problems, it adds almost 30 more gallons of water plus there will be a refrugium section
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Old October 24th, 2012, 05:47 PM   #23
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Default 90 gal

just keep a good eye on the levels
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Old October 28th, 2012, 05:39 PM   #24
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Default Tank update

Has thee been any improvement in this tank? Sometimes we get so caught up in the solution that we don't really identify the problem. What has been the change since the original post?

Weekly Tank parameters:

PH
Salinity
Alkalinity
Phosphate
Temp
Lighting used (10k, 20k etc)
feeding schedule
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Old November 11th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #25
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Is your tank still running?
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Old November 12th, 2012, 01:17 PM   #26
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they are all running great
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Old November 24th, 2012, 09:04 PM   #27
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Rossf1 i have sent u several private messages
in regard to the forum contest
please email back
you came in second place
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Old January 6th, 2013, 10:19 AM   #28
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Default live rock question

i recently started a new 150 gallon tank. i mixed my red sea salt and loowley added through the return in the sump. i have a refrugium set up in the center chamber, it has sand and live rock, well I looked today and see the live rock is covered in white, the same white stuff I had to scrape off the glass, did it kill my live rock or is it going to be ok, do i need to replace the live rock, do I leave it alone or do i clean it... not sure what to do

thanks

Ross
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Old January 6th, 2013, 04:26 PM   #29
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Default salt mix

it sounds like salt residue, from not mixing proberly
you should always mix salt in a seperate bucket or pail that you use just for that purpose.
mixing salt in a tank makes your salinity leval fluxuate and stresses live stock
it should be ok, just stir it up so it mixes.
I use a powerhead
remember when doing wc set temperture first then declorinate then mix salt, give it a few minutes to disolve before putting it in your tank
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Old January 7th, 2013, 09:01 AM   #30
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Default Salt Mix

Its been my regular practice to run a powerhead in the bucket or what ever container you're mixing the new salt water in to mix the salt til it's completely dissolved. I run mine over night so the water is at lrast room temp. That gives you time to make your ph and salinity are stable. Get use to doing this so when you tank is established you don't cause major swings in your tank chemistry. You'll be happier in the long run
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